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Interview with Dr. Robert Schulman
June 13, 2000 8:00 p.m. to 9:00 p.m. (EST)
Chatters: (10 including Moderator & Dr. Schulman): Dr R A Schulman, mod, Trey4123, flobaskas, billybob3, ravirama, 1947, epetterson1, 00553, TTFitzgerald)
Moderator: Good evening, everyone. We're chatting with Dr. Robert Schulman, an MD and physical medicine/rehabilitation specialist practicing in New York City - in particular, a background in dance, prior to medical training. I've known several practitioners in alternative modalities with similar paths, but none of them are MD's. Please ask him your questions.
Trey4123: What interested you in eastern medical practices?
Dr. Schulman: Well, I suppose in high school I was first exposed to Tai Chi and Aikido. Then in college, I read some of the writings of Chogyam Trungpa, and the Tibetan Buddhists. Actually, studying acupuncture is a lifelong journey.
Trey4123: Was curious about the difference between medical acupuncture -vs.- regular acupuncture?
Dr. Schulman: The main difference is that medical acupuncturists are also MD's. As such, they can provide medical care, diagnostic testing, medication - and so on - as well as using medical acupuncture as a healing modality.
Moderator: Can anyone practice acupuncture in the U.S.? Are there licensing laws? If so, are they different in different states?
Dr. Schulman: Well, in the United States, the practice of acupuncture is regulated differently in each state. Physicians in some states need to complete 200-300 hours of continuing medical education in order to use acupuncture as an extension of their medical skills. In other states, no regulation is set up. Non-doctors generally need 3000 hours of training, and they must pass an exam.
Trey4123: So medical acupuncture blends eastern and western medical practices?
Dr. Schulman: That's correct. In fact, I was in France when the medical community first embraced acupuncture (as a legitimate medical practice).
Moderator: Hey flobaskas, is acupuncture one of your healing sources? It certainly is mine.
Flobaskas: Yes, actually Dr. Schulman treated my frozen shoulders and the pain diminished.
Trey4123: How does the AAMA help regulate the practice of acupuncture?
Dr. Schulman: The AAMA helps by monitoring legislation at a state and Federal level. In a few cases, we have stepped in when the rights of MD's to practice medical acupuncture were restricted.
Moderator: Anyone who wants to know more about the AAMA can click on their logo above, or go to their web-site at www.medicalacupuncture.org
Trey4123: I have never experienced acupuncture, could you describe the process?
Dr. Schulman: First of all, it doesn't hurt. Generally, most people feel very relaxed after their first treatment.
Moderator: That's true! I've experienced it many times, including one "miracle" cure.
Dr. Schulman: What was your miracle cure?
Moderator: In London, I suffered from a herniated disk (L 4,5) No conventional treatment worked; sciatica had me limping for six months. An osteopath I was seeing also practiced acupuncture. One treatment and I walked out with minimal pain, and no reoccurrence! However, I've had treatments from other (non-MD) practitioners that weren't always effective.
Dr. Schulman: That's great (that you found a treatment that worked) - we like to hear stories like that.
Flobaskas: I thought it usually takes a number of treatments to see an improvement, is this common?
Dr. Schulman: On occasion we all have seen these "one treatment cures." I treated a patient with pain in her back from a tumor in the vertebra, and the pain resolved after one treatment. Where were the needles inserted, do you recall?
Moderator: This was two decades ago... let's see: both hands, both feet, inner ankles I believe, and two lines of needles along the lower spine. Amazing thing was, the needles were all placed symmetrically, but I felt a "pull" - not a pain - which was clearly diagonal.
Dr. Schulman: Sounds similar to the points that I would use, coming from the "French Energetic school" of acupuncture
Moderator: Dr. S, how would someone find a good local medical acupuncturist?
Dr. Schulman: The AAMA web site has a list of members that one can search by location. Or call the 800 number and the Academy staff will direct you to a referral. The number is 800-521-2262, and the web site is www.medicalacupuncture.org
trey4123: What types of ailments are commonly treated with acupuncture, and which have the best success rates?
Dr. Schulman: Well, for example the common cold! I've had tremendous success after one treatment. In Chinese Medicine a cold is called a "wind invasion" Also, the World Health Organization, and the National Institute of Health both have established lists of conditions, and these are available on the AAMA web site. In general acute conditions are easier to treat than chronic, but there are exceptions.
Trey4123: What are examples of acute conditions? I'm not very literate in medical terms...
Dr. Schulman: Well, for example the common cold! I've had tremendous success after one treatment. In Chinese Medicine a cold is called a "wind invasion"
epetterson1: You can add musculoskeletal conditions such as whiplash (one needle)
Moderator: Welcome, billybob3, 1947 and epetterson1 - we're chatting with Dr. Robert Schulman, a MD who is a physical medicine/rehabilitation specialist. Please ask your questions.
billybob3: Yes, hello doctor- I can't believe I found this amazing site of information! I have had severe pelvic pain for my whole life and no doctor has been able to help me yet.
Dr. Schulman: Billybob, have you ever had acupuncture, say for a shoulder injury?
billybob3: Yes I have and I was helped immensely-I respond well to alternative health treatments
Moderator: Welcome, 00553 and TTFitzgerald. Please ask Dr. Schulman anything you want to know about medical acupuncture.
1947: Dr S, I just completed the Helms course. My question is when doing a lower back PENS where do the S2 and S4 needles go? At the foramina at Bl 32 and 34, further out at Bl28 and 30, or off the sacrum at Bl 53 and 54? Thanks
epetterson1: Bl32/34 and the outer point usually GB30. The spinal needles go to the transverse processes.
Dr. Schulman: thanks epetterson- you seem quite knowledgeable- are you a UCLA grad as well?
epetterson1: Thank you, yes 1998, and PENS is my mainstay of treatment in personal injury.
trey4123: Could you please explain how acupuncture works in simple terms? I think there are a lot of misconceptions out there...
Dr. Schulman: well, the most clearly researched explanation is that acupuncture stimulates the body's own natural painkillers, known as endorphins. In addition, acupuncture probably works by stimulation of nerve endings at the site were the needles are inserted.
trey4123: How has modern technology affected the ancient art of acupuncture?
Dr. Schulman: Good question trey- well, first off we use sterile and disposable needles!
Moderator: Acupuncture and energy healing modalities are usually successful for the same types of ailments (headaches, inflammations, to name a few). Can you explain the commonality that makes them both effective?
Dr. Schulman: Mod- it's unclear from a western biomedical explanation what that link is- some researchers feel that there is a matrix of information transmitted in the extracellular fluid, and the in cleavage planes along the muscles.
trey4123: Do you think that acupuncture will be more accepted in the future? if so, what would the role of the AAMA be in the future of acupuncture?
Dr. Schulman: Sure - there have been some interesting studies recently showing that brain activity is increased by stimulation with acupuncture needles, in the regions classically said the be associated with the point!
Moderator: For those who want to know more about the AAMA, click on the link above, or phone 800-521-2262
epetterson1: In TCM, electrical current is produced by manipulating the needles, in microvolts. AAMA members use electracupuncture, which is in millivolts.
trey4123: What does TCM stand for?
Dr. Schulman: Traditional Chinese Medicine- In the USA this generally refers the training received by non-MD acupuncturists
Moderator: Do most health insurers cover the cost of acupuncture?
Dr. Schulman: Some do- the only way to find out is to call the insurance carrier.
trey4123: In the bio, you mention the AAMA as "physician-only", could you explain?
Dr. Schulman: Yes- the AAMA is open only to MD's and DO's
trey4123: what's a DO?
Moderator: Trey, it was a DO who cured me in London, and turned my perspective forever toward Eastern medicine.
epetterson1 Doctor of Osteopathy - physician that has some training in manipulation
trey4123: What do you mean by manipulation?
epetterson1: Manipulation is the treatment given by chiropractors.
Dr. Schulman: Manipulation refers to the twirling and thrusting of the needle.
Moderator: Manipulation is how Chinese women got their way in olden times :)
Moderator: If a Chinese doctor practices acupuncture here in the U.S. but is not licensed here as a MD, can s/he belong to the AAMA?
Dr. Schulman: No, only if licensed in the US - perhaps if their practice was restricted to acupuncture and they could be licensed as such.
epetterson1: In fact my intro to acupuncture was through such a Chinese doctor.
trey4123: I've read that legislation (in some states) is being argued on whether or not to cover the cost of acupuncture - but they are waiting on federal studies on whether it is a valid treatment, any thoughts???
Dr. Schulman: I believe you're referring to federal debate over Medicare coverage for acupuncture
Moderator: Folks, we have less than 15 minutes left with Dr. Schulman. Thank you all for your great questions and comments, and keep on sending...
trey4123 what side effects are there to acupuncture treatments? How can they be avoided?
Dr. Schulman: Good question trey- on occasion there is a bit of light-headedness after the treatment. It's not really much of a side effect. Also, every now and then one creates a small blood bruise, or hematoma.
Moderator: Thanks, how much does a treatment cost? Or is it a series?
Dr. Schulman: Well, the cost varies from about $75-125 per session
epetterson1: You need to check locally, there is a wide variation in charges.
Moderator: Are there medical acupuncture clinics where one can go for treatments at a lower cost?
Dr. Schulman: Yes, also many of the acupuncture schools have clinics
epetterson1: In my city there are clinics. - Univ. of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia has a clinic, they charge $50 and there is a coverage that pays $40.
trey4123: Does the AAMA field questions? how should I get more info on medical acupuncture?
Dr. Schulman: Trey, the AAMA does not field questions, but there is a list of "FAQ's"
trey4123: Thank you for the helpful info, sounds like you and the AAMA are helping guide acupuncture in the right direction. Also thanks to the others in the room for clearing up my questions
Moderator: Dr. S, can you usually ascertain how many treatments will be needed, when you diagnose? Also, do you use herbs?
Dr. Schulman: Mod- it's a general rule of thumb that the longer one has had a condition, the more treatments will be needed. And yes, I often use herbs in my practice
Moderator: Sorry, our chat is about to close. Thanks, Dr. Schulman, for a really informative chat. Anyone who would like to stay on is welcome to do so, and again - check out the doctor's bio above, and the AAMA web site. Good Night All!
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